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Talk:Cremisius Aclassi
"Aqun-Athlok" I don't have the game yet, does it provide a literal translation of the term "Aqun-Athlok"? If so, I think that is what should be used in the lead paragraph of the background. That will help prevent the continuous changing of the sentence that is currently occurring, as that is not conducive. -- 23:54, November 18, 2014 (UTC) :: I don't have it either yet, but I did see a video where Iron Bull describes it as Born as one gender but living as the other while I'm not sure what the actual words mean the rough translation is obviously transsexual.--Swampshade (talk) 00:37, November 19, 2014 (UTC) ::: Well, if those are the exact words he uses, I think it'd be good to use that, with quotation marks around it. I get that Cremesius is transgender, but the wording keeps getting rearranged and I'd like to avoid edit wars. -- 00:59, November 19, 2014 (UTC) ::::Agreed. Using the exact in game wording would solve a lot of problems. - 01:07, November 19, 2014 (UTC) Okay, I changed the wording to the exact quote and added a note about him being only the second transgender character to be in Dragon Age--that seems pretty noteworthy to me, and addresses the fact that he is transgender. -- 03:24, November 19, 2014 (UTC) Name is Incorrect His name above his head in the game begins with a K not a C. I believe it should be Kremisius.Vhardamis (talk) 08:01, December 5, 2014 (UTC) ---- Different user here, the correct spelling is Cremisius Aclassi. I have a screenshot of subtitles to back me up. < |- swordwitch ----~* : Good catch! I'll rename the article. -- 03:04, December 3, 2014 (UTC) Then they did a terrible job on continuity. The actual title above his head when you talk to him is Krem. It would make 0 sense to have 2 spellings even using the -it's a nickname- argument. Vhardamis (talk) 08:01, December 5, 2014 (UTC) : That doesn't really have anything to do with continuity; it was an intentional spelling on BioWare's part. Not sure why, but it's not uncommon for shortened names to be spelled differently from the full name. -- 08:26, December 5, 2014 (UTC) ::Cremisius could be a feminine name, and perhaps the characters birth name, while Krem is the masculine variant the character has chosen to use. Similar to the difference between male and female variants of identical names in the real world (such as Tony and Toni.) Garhdo (talk) 01:48, March 28, 2015 (UTC) :::Krem is just a nickname you're reading a little too much into it. Also Cremisius is about as masculine as you can get in regards to Latinesqe names, the feminine equivelant would be something like Cremisia.--Swampshade (talk) 21:00, March 28, 2015 (UTC) Attacked b/c of gender? Goes against cited material. Added on December 07, 2014, this page states that Krem bribed a healer in the army and was subsequently pursued after his secret was discovered. Where is the source for this? I haven’t found any evidence and after Patrick Weekes discussed in the cited interview that they DIDN'T make the tavern attack about his gender–I find it difficult to believe... I absolutely may have missed something. But considering what Weekes said I feel this is important to accurately represent. If what is on the page is correct, though, a citation would be appreciated. Thank you very much! --Ofaolain383 (talk) 09:32, January 7, 2015 (UTC) It's part of a conversation you have with Krem. I don't remember what particular one it was, but I believe it's when you talk to him about his gender. The implications on the tavern attack more of imply he was attacked for trying to desert the Imperium, but I find that very difficult to believe. I think they were trying to veer away from that implication out of respect for victims of transphobia/sexual abuse. -ANON Cremisius explains that he was attacked because he deserted the army in Tevinter. The phrase "they had me on the floor" might be interpreted in different ways, but there's nothing in the game that states he was attacked for being a "woman", and there's no indication the soldiers would even know that about him. I'll rephrase that part to better match what the game shows. -- 05:04, January 8, 2015 (UTC) Krem's gender I can understand the wiki displaying gender as male, but Krem's "Sex" is female and usage of pronouns on the page should reflect that. --N00bKing (talk) 09:38, January 9, 2015 : Krem is male, therefore masculine pronouns are used. He is referred to as male by several people in the game, by his writer Patrick Weekes and by devs at BioWare. For the wiki to go against that would not only be inaccurate but disrespectful. Gender pronouns should always reflect the characters' gender, regardless of biological sex. Just as we do with Maevaris Tilani -- 09:56, January 9, 2015 (UTC) :: buhu, truth is disrespectful. So offensive! Grow the fuck up, you can't expect people to deny the sky is blue because some freak is offended by that.--Damx (talk) 00:21, March 28, 2015 (UTC) ::: Please keep your comments respectful, thanks. -- 05:07, March 28, 2015 (UTC) She's not male. She can feel as an unicorn and the qunari may agree, but from a scientific point of view, she is human female with gender disorder (technical words, you feel offended? Sue science for discrimination/racism/rape or whataver) and this is not an opinion you have to accept with faith, but a plain and simple fact. But nowaday you put feelings before reason, so I guess in this wikia you must write male. Afterall, this is not srs bsnss am I right.--Damx (talk) 00:03, March 28, 2015 (UTC) :Fortunately the trans community have a term for this if anyone bothered to look - trans-man. It means that while not physically male that is how Krem presents hisself. As a result male pronouns would be used. Or of course third gender pronouns could be used in the article, but that creates more inconsistency when the character is referred to by male pronouns in game. Garhdo (talk) 01:43, March 28, 2015 (UTC) :: Thanks for making the change to gender, Garhdo. It had honestly not occurred to me to use a gender other than male, so I appreciate you correcting it. -- 05:07, March 28, 2015 (UTC) ::: I'm not really sure if "transman" is the right thing to use for the infobox. Transman is more of a descriptive term for a FtM transsexual than an actual gender identity. Krem is referred to as a male by both himself and Iron Bull, along with the devs. Putting anything else in the infobox could be consided offensive.--Swampshade (talk) 21:00, March 28, 2015 (UTC) :::: Well, at this point everything that's been put in there has been considered offensive, so I'm pretty much at a loss. It would be lovely if a consensus could be made so that people would stop changing it every 5 minutes. -- 23:02, March 28, 2015 (UTC) :::::Swampshade the term transman fits anywhere along the spectrum of a natural-born female exhibiting male gender characteristics. Its also the best term to describe Krem's gender here, as neither male or female is strictly correct (due to Krem's representation) and the previous term was (Fe)Male - a term which invalidates Krem's gender identity as well as being plain incorrect and a ridiculous term. Transman is the best all-encompassing term we can use here. Garhdo (talk) 00:18, March 29, 2015 (UTC) :::::Actually until Damx edited the article it just said Male and we just left it at that. Crem considers hiimself to be, acts like and is referred to in-game as a man. Hence... - 00:44, March 29, 2015 (UTC) ::::::Hm, I was gonna say that to help you reach consensus I will support having the gender "male", but Garhdo with your explanation I guess the transman is also a fine solution. My only question would be whether people actually would understand that term as its meant. And additionally, it does seem that the supporters for "female" were in minority, if that now counts as anything... :) 10:40, March 29, 2015 (UTC) Actually, the term "trans man" as a gender is considered offensive. Krem identifies as male, therefore the gender on this wiki page should reflect that. To suggest otherwise, that "trans man" is a legitimate gender, is offensive to the trans community. There is no third gender such as "trans man" or "trans woman". That only alienates transgender people further. The gender should be changed back to male. :I think we should just go with male as gender, use male pronouns. I don' think we're going to keep everyone happy, bu that seems likes the most accurate term for me. 15:29, April 25, 2015 (UTC) :: That's fine with me. -- 19:33, April 25, 2015 (UTC) :::Seconded. - 23:34, April 25, 2015 (UTC) First Transgender Character Wasn't there a trans character in the first game, in the Pearl? Fair enough that character wasn't named, and was mostly a side-insult or joke at least from most peoples perspective, but they still appear, thus making Krem not be the first trans character in the games. I think it was an elf character. I'm not talking about the dwarf in drag from the surprise, I'm talking about one of the characters you can engage sexually if you choose both when Sanga asks you if you want women or men. Apos (talk) 04:59, January 14, 2015 (UTC) :: No there were a handful of "female" companions (the female is in quotations in game), with male voices that the player could sleep with as a joke, but the game doesn't explicitly identify them as transgender they could just as easily be men in drag. There was also Serendipity the elf prostitute in DA2 but she was confirmed to be a drag queen.--Swampshade (talk) 09:48, January 14, 2015 (UTC) Minor Edit I see this page is locked for edits. I just wanted to add a clarifier under "involvement" (new text in brackets): When the Inquisition moves to Skyhold, Krem takes up residence in the Herald's Rest tavern. Speaking to Krem each Main Plot quest and asking what the Chargers can be used for will unlock certain Table Operations throughout the game. Heidirs (talk) 15:12, June 1, 2015 (UTC) : It's only locked to unregistered users, you should still be able to make changes to it as long as you're logged in. -- 18:44, June 1, 2015 (UTC) Looks like someone deleted the whole page /sigh... Anyways. Krem is a man. He was assigned female at birth based on the appearance of his genitalia but he is a man non the less. As an actual trans person here I feel like I should weigh in. It should simply say he is male. And him be trans can be mentioned later in the article. Or Trans-Man can work as well if you prefer. But the last revision I saw before it all got deleted was male (mentally) female (body) That's not a real good way to put it. So male, or trans male or trans man. If you don't want to respect my thoughts then listen to Bioware and in game info. He is a man you have to respect it as the game creators said so. He isn't female in any way besides purely biologically which isn't really something that needs to be put under Gender. Gender and sex are not the same thing. Gender is societal, Sex is biological. Also do we know for sure that Krem has not received some kind of medical or magical help to physical transform his body to appear more as he identifies inside? He may be biologically male thanks to such things. I can't recall if anything like that was mentioned because its been awhile since I've played. (talk) 01:17, January 6, 2016 (UTC) :Actually we just set Gender to Male and left it at that ages and ages ago. For some reason people seem to keep arguing this particular bit of minituae, so Im just going to set it back to what we originally had Gender: Male and leave it there. - 02:49, January 6, 2016 (UTC) : Yeah, the (mentally)/(body) thing was vandalism, which I removed as soon as I saw it. It's unfortunate that this page gets targeted so much, but his gender should definitely be left at male. -- 04:57, January 6, 2016 (UTC) : Oh, and judging from revision history the page was never actually blanked/deleted. Sometimes wikia has a bad habit of making pages look blank even when they have info on them. I've found that clearing your browser cache seems to fix the problem, at least temporarily. -- 04:59, January 6, 2016 (UTC)